Chapter 190: Discussing Reform (Part 1)

A secretary from the Central Office entered and prepared two cups of tea for Zhou Ming and Du Peng, placing them in front of them. Du Zhongyuan said to Zhou Ming, "This is Lion's Peak Longjing tea, recommended to me by several old leaders. It's my favorite."

Due to his family background, Zhou Ming wasn't very knowledgeable about tea, but he vaguely remembered that Longjing tea came in different grades, with Lion's Peak being the highest quality. Even though Zhou Ming wasn't a connoisseur, it was clear that anyone recommended by figures of Du Zhongyuan's status would have exceptional taste, and this tea was no exception.

Zhou Ming took a sip, and the fresh aroma of the Longjing tea invigorated him. Although Zhou Ming wasn't adept at appreciating tea, he knew he had no time to savor it. He was aware that the earlier discussion about Du Peng's identity was just a prelude. The main topic of conversation was yet to come.

As expected, once Du Zhongyuan saw that Zhou Ming had taken a sip and was ready, he continued, "I know that you were the one who established the stock market in Nanjiang. People say you have an extraordinary understanding of the stock market. What are your views on the development of Nanjiang's stock market?"

"I think it's very necessary," Zhou Ming answered directly without hesitation. "The stock market is not just about buying and selling stocks for speculation. Its essence is a capital market, an important component of the entire financial economy. In fact, in some ways, the stock market can even reflect the local economic development."

"I know many people are skeptical about Nanjiang's stock market, believing that starting a stock market without any regulations or systems is akin to committing a crime. But I believe that Nanjiang's economy is still in its early stages, and what it lacks most is capital. The stock market is precisely what can help Nanjiang raise the necessary funds from society. This is very important," Zhou Ming said.

"Your view aligns with Yang Lao's principle of 'doing first and thinking later,'" Du Zhongyuan commented with a smile.

Zhou Ming shrugged, "That's because I also support Yang Lao's idea. In fact, insisting on establishing the stock market was also a way of implementing Yang Lao's developmental thought."

Du Zhongyuan nodded, "Indeed, some things should be done first. If we wait until we have thought everything through, the opportunity will have already passed."

"But speaking of 'doing first and thinking later,' many people now discuss our current reform and opening-up, saying that market economy is following a capitalist path. Regarding this issue, I know you discussed it with American economist Nordriman. However, I still want to hear if you have any new thoughts," Du Zhongyuan said.

Du Zhongyuan's words cleared up a mystery for Zhou Ming. It seemed that the Central Government was indeed aware of Nordriman's visit, but for reasons Zhou Ming wasn't privy to, no one had received him.

No matter what the reason was, it didn't concern Zhou Ming, and political matters were often complex and hard to clarify.

Zhou Ming dismissed the issue from his mind and replied to Du Zhongyuan, "Chairman Du, I believe that complete public ownership is essentially privatization, and conversely, complete privatization is also public ownership. Just like the reforms in the US before World War II, which were somewhat socialist in nature, does that mean we should label the US as a socialist country? That's clearly not the case."

"I remember that Yang Lao mentioned at the beginning of the reform and opening-up that the goal was to make the entire population wealthy, which is the same as the original purpose of our party and country. So, since the goal is the same," Zhou Ming said, "whether it's socialism or something else, I think arguing about it is meaningless."

"You make a good point. However, sometimes arguments are inevitable. Just because you say it's meaningless and you don't want to argue doesn't mean everyone shares your view," Du Zhongyuan reminded Zhou Ming.

Indeed, many people in the country were adept at opposition, always finding faults no matter what was said, which was quite annoying.

Thinking of this, Zhou Ming said, "Chairman Du, if that's the case, we could also firmly establish a new concept called 'socialist market economy.'"

Zhou Ming's answer clearly brightened Du Zhongyuan's eyes, but he still calmly asked Zhou Ming, "Why call it a socialist market economy? Does adding the term 'socialist' change the nature of the market economy?"

"The market economy remains the same market economy. It's just that some aspects of it will change. For example, some developed countries call their market economies 'social market economies.' Although it's just two additional words, some subtle issues change," Zhou Ming explained. "As for what I mean by socialist market economy, it depends on how we define socialism."

"I recall reading in textbooks that socialism meant public ownership of everything, all resources allocated, and no basic commodity exchange allowed," Zhou Ming asked, "but is that really socialism?"

Du Zhongyuan shook his head, "Absolutely not. That path has been proven wrong. Despite years of nation-building, the country has not escaped poverty, and has even become poorer. This is definitely not socialism, or at least not the socialism we aimed for at the beginning of the revolution."

"I agree with you, Chairman Du," Zhou Ming said. "I think instead of pursuing extremes, socialism should be seen as an ideal of achieving social justice and common prosperity."

Du Zhongyuan clapped his hands happily, "Exactly. Social justice and common prosperity, socialism should be like that."

"So, if this social ideal can be achieved through a market economy, and given that we cannot replicate foreign systems entirely, then our economy can be called socialist market economy," Zhou Ming said.

Du Zhongyuan pointed at Zhou Ming and said, "You young comrade, despite your age, you have quite a skill in straddling the fence!"

Du Zhongyuan's words were actually high praise for Zhou Ming. The term socialist market economy might sound like just a label, but as Zhou Ming had said, it encompassed both public and private aspects. Politically, it represented a balanced approach, avoiding offending either side, much like straddling a fence.

Facing Du Zhongyuan's praise, Zhou Ming felt a bit embarrassed and said, "Actually, I'm just thinking about myself. After all, with the market economy opening up more, it's easier for people like me to make money!"

Du Zhongyuan laughed heartily, "Making money is good! Those who can work should earn more. If everyone, regardless of how much they work or their intelligence, received the same pay, wouldn't society become stagnant?"

At this point, Du Zhongyuan suddenly thought of something and asked Zhou Ming, "By the way, I heard that you have already started a pilot for state-owned enterprise reform in Linyang. This is a rare pilot and a new direction for reform. What are your views on state-owned enterprise reform?"

"Reforming state-owned enterprises is necessary. After all, the old state-owned enterprises were inefficient because the officials only cared about promotions and personal gain, neglecting production. This kind of production is too inefficient and must be reformed!" Zhou Ming said firmly. "Of course, this reform must be cautious, as state-owned enterprises are valuable. With this value, there will inevitably be a lot of corruption!"

Du Zhongyuan's expression grew serious as he considered this. He then asked, "From the current nationwide state-owned enterprise reform pilot projects, corruption is prevalent. So, Zhou Ming, do you mean that now is not the right time for reform?"

Zhou Ming shook his head, "Chairman Du, I didn't say that. I just said that reform must prevent corruption. The reform of state-owned enterprises should not be a blanket reform but should be selective. Regardless of the changes, we must keep some critical industries under national control."

"Looking abroad, many countries began to take over key industries after World War II. If we were to discard these now, wouldn't we be going backward?" Zhou Ming said. "In my view, even if those key industries need reform, such as turning them into joint-stock systems to enhance competitiveness, it must be done while ensuring that the state holds the majority of the shares."

Hearing Zhou Ming's words, Du Zhongyuan's expression grew increasingly serious. He asked Zhou Ming, "How did you come to these conclusions?"

This question made Zhou Ming's heart skip a beat, realizing he had possibly touched a sensitive topic. According to his previous life's memory, the internal struggle over the central government's policies was approaching a critical stage, and a resolution was imminent within a year.

Realizing this, Zhou Ming said, "Chairman Du, actually, these are just my personal speculations. You know, as ordinary citizens, we often like to discuss national affairs in our spare time."

Du Zhongyuan paused, understanding that perhaps his demeanor had been too intense. He then softened his tone, "Zhou Ming, don't be afraid. I had no other intentions. I just didn't expect that while the central government has been debating these issues for over a year, your logic is so straightforward. It truly makes the central government feel ashamed."

Zhou Ming understood that Du Zhongyuan was trying to reassure him, but he also knew that the political environment of that era was not as relaxed as in later times. Without any significant background, getting involved in such matters could lead to dire consequences. It was best to avoid involvement if possible.

So, Zhou Ming said, "Actually, it's nothing. The central government has to consider issues from a national perspective, so they inevitably consider more factors. Compared to the central leaders, my perspective is much narrower, and I probably can't think of many things."

Du Zhongyuan gave Zhou Ming a deep look and uttered two words, "Cunning!"